Quick takes

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Anything that qualifies as good ... (read more)

EAGxUtrecht (July 5-7) is now inviting applicants from the UK (alongside other Western European regions that don't currently have an upcoming EAGx).[1] Apply here!

Ticket discounts are available and we have limited travel support.

Utrecht is very easy to get to. You can fly/Eurostar to Amsterdam and then every 15 mins there's a direct train to Utrecht, which only takes 35 mins (and costs €10.20).

Traditional houses on the Oudegracht in downtown Utrecht

  1. ^

    Applicants from elsewhere are encouraged to apply but the bar for getting in is much higher.

Our team at Epoch recently updated the org's website.
I'd be curious to receive feedback if anyone has any!
What do you like about the design? What do you dislike?
How can we make it more useful for you?

Showing 3 of 4 replies (Click to show all)
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defun
I think it looks great! 👏👏 The only thing I'm uneasy about is the testimonial of an investor who's accelerating AI capabilities.  
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Agustín Covarrubias
I think this is fine: Epoch's work appeals to a broad audience, and Nat Friedman is a well-respected technologist.

I agree that this testimonial adds credibility to Epoch, but it raises concerns about whether their work has negative impacts.

Does requiring ex-ante Pareto superiority incentivise information suppression?

 

Assume I emit x kg of carbon dioxide. Later on, I donate to offset 2x kg of carbon dioxide emissions. The combination of these two actions seems to make everyone better off in expectation. It’s ex-ante Pareto superior. Even though we know that my act of emitting carbon and offsetting it will cause the deaths of different individuals due to different extreme weather events compared to not emitting at all, climate scientists report that higher carbon emissions will make the s... (read more)

Interesting!

Fleurbaey and Voorhoeve wrote a related paper: https://doi.org/10.1093/acprof:oso/9780199931392.003.0009

FWIW, GPT said the greenhouse effect is not stronger locally to the emissions. So, I would guess that if you can offset and emit the same kind of greenhouse gas molecules roughly simultaneously, it would be very unlikely we'd be able to predict which regions are made worse off by this than neither emitting nor offsetting.

I worked at OpenAI for three years, from 2021-2024 on the Alignment team, which eventually became the Superalignment team. I worked on scalable oversight, part of the team developing critiques as a technique for using language models to spot mistakes in other language models. I then worked to refine an idea from Nick Cammarata into a method for using language model to generate explanations for features in language models. I was then promoted to managing a team of 4 people which worked on trying to understand language model features in context, leading to t... (read more)

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26
huw
FWIW on timelines: * June 13, 2022: Critiques paper (link 1) * May 9, 2023: Language models explain language models paper (link 2) * November 17, 2023: Altman removal & reinstatement * February 15, 2024: William_S resigns * March 8, 2024: Altman is reinstated to the OpenAI board * March 12, 2024: Transformer debugger is open-sourced * April 2024: Cullen O'Keefe departs (via LinkedIn) * April 11, 2024: Leopold Aschenbrenner & Pavel Izmailov fired for leaking information * April 18, 2024: Users notice Daniel Kokotaljo has resigned
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William_S
No comment.

Presumably NDA + forbidden to talk about the NDA (hence forbidden to talk about being forbidden to talk about ... )

With another EAG nearby, I thought now would be a good time to push out this draft-y note. I'm sure I'm missing a mountain of nuance, but I stand by the main messages:

 

"Keep Talking"

I think there are two things EAs could be doing more of, on the margin. They are cheap, easy, and have the potential to unlock value in unsuspecting ways.


Talk to more people

I say this 15 times a week. It's the most no-brainer thing I can think of, with a ridiculously low barrier to entry; it's usually net-positive for one while often only drawing on unproductive hours of t... (read more)

One habit to make that second piece of advice stick even more that I often recommend: introduce people to other people as soon as you think of it (i.e. pause the conversation and send them an email address or list of names or open a thread between the two people). 

I often pause 1:1s to find links or send someone a message because I'm prone to forgetting to do follow-up actions unless I immediately do it (or write it down).

I once read a similar nuance in one of Brian Kaplan's articles: If you are a utilitarian, you will create a society that favors neurotic people. If this problem doesn't need to be resolved, why? If I had to solve this problem, how would I solve it?

I've recently made an update to our Announcement on the future of Wytham Abbey, saying that since this announcement, we have decided that we will use some of the proceeds on Effective Venture's general costs.

huw
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Can you give a sense of what proportion? Should we expect 'some' to mean ≤10% or something more significant?

I don't think we need to explicitly alert the reader when we've received help from an LLM to write something (even if it wrote the bulk of the post). That's it, my quickest ever Quick Take.

Mobius (the Bay Area-based family foundation where I work) is exploring new ways to remove animals from the food system. We're looking for a part-time Program Manager to help get more talented people who are knowledgable about farmed animal welfare and/or alternative proteins into US government roles. This entrepreneurial generalist would pilot a 3-6 month program to support promising students and early graduates with applying to and securing entry-level Congressional roles. We think success here could significantly improve thoughtful policymaking on farme... (read more)


Not sure how to post these two thoughts so I might as well combine them.

In an ideal world, SBF should have been sentenced to thousands of years in prison. This is partially due to the enormous harm done to both FTX depositors and EA, but mainly for basic deterrence reasons; a risk-neutral person will not mind 25 years in prison if the ex ante upside was becoming a trillionaire.

However, I also think many lessons from SBF's personal statements e.g. his interview on 80k are still as valid as ever. Just off the top of my head:

  • Startup-to-give as a high EV caree
... (read more)
16
James Herbert
Watch team backup: I think we should be incredibly careful about saying things like, "it is probably okay to work in an industry that is slightly bad for the world if you do lots of good by donating". I'm sure you mean something reasonable when you say this, similar to what's expressed here, but I still wanted to flag it.

I'm surprised by the disagree votes. Is this because people think I'm saying, 'in the case of whether it is ever OK to take a harmful job in order to do more good, one ought not to say what one truly believes'? 

To clarify, that's not what I'm trying to say. I'm saying we should have nuanced thoughts about whether it is ever OK to take a harmful job in order to do more good, and we should make sure we're expressing those thoughts in a nuanced fashion (similar to the 80k article I linked). If you disagree with this I'd be very interested in hearing your reasoning!

Edgy and data-driven TED talk on how the older generations in America are undermining the youth. Worth a watch.
 

I've said that people voting anonymously is good, and I still think so, but when I have people downvoting me for appreciating little jokes that other people most on my shortform, I think we've become grumpy. 

Showing 3 of 4 replies (Click to show all)

Completely agree, I would love humour to be more appreciated on the forum. Rarely does a joke slip through appreciated/unpunished.

1
yanni kyriacos
haha whenever I try humour / sarcasm I get shot directly into the sun. 
5
Nathan Young
I get that, though it feels like shortforms should be a bit looser. 

In my latest post I talked about whether unaligned AIs would produce more or less utilitarian value than aligned AIs. To be honest, I'm still quite confused about why many people seem to disagree with the view I expressed, and I'm interested in engaging more to get a better understanding of their perspective.

At the least, I thought I'd write a bit more about my thoughts here, and clarify my own views on the matter, in case anyone is interested in trying to understand my perspective.

The core thesis that was trying to defend is the following view:

My view: It... (read more)

Perceived counter-argument:

My proposed counter-argument loosely based on the structure of yours.

Summary of claims

  • A reasonable fraction of computational resources will be spent based on the result of careful reflection.
  • I expect to be reasonably aligned with the result of careful reflection from other humans
  • I expect to be much less aligned with result of AIs-that-seize-control reflecting due to less similarity and the potential for AIs to pursue relatively specific objectives from training (things like reward seeking).
  • Many arguments that human resource usage
... (read more)
4
Ryan Greenblatt
Suppose that a single misaligned AI takes control and it happens to care somewhat about its own happiness while not having any more "altruistic" tendencies that I would care about or you would care about. (I think misaligned AIs which seize control caring about their own happiness substantially seems less likely than not, but let's suppose this for now.) (I'm saying "single misaligned AI" for simplicity, I get that a messier coalition might be in control.) It now has access to vast amounts of computation after sending out huge numbers of probes to take control over all available energy. This is enough computation to run absolutely absurd amounts of stuff. What are you imagining it spends these resources on which is competitive with optimized goodness? Running >10^50 copies of itself which are heavily optimized for being as happy as possible while spending? If a small number of agents have a vast amount of power, and these agents don't (eventually, possibly after a large amount of thinking) want to do something which is de facto like the values I end up caring about upon reflection (which is probably, though not certainly, vaguely like utilitarianism in some sense), then from my perspective it seems very likely that the resources will be squandered. If you're imagining something like: 1. It thinks carefully about what would make "it" happy. 2. It realizes it cares about having as many diverse good experience moments as possible in a non-indexical way. 3. It realizes that heavy self-modification would result in these experience moments being better and more efficient, so it creates new versions of "itself" which are radically different and produce more efficiently good experiences. 4. It realizes it doesn't care much about the notion of "itself" here and mostly just focuses on good experiences. 5. It runs vast numbers of such copies with diverse experiences. Then this is just something like utilitarianism by another name via a differnet line of reasoning. I

I am concerned about the H5N1 situation in dairy cows and have written and overview document to which I occasionally add new learnings (new to me or new to world). I also set up a WhatsApp community that anyone is welcome to join for discussion & sharing news.

In brief:

  • I believe there are quite a few (~50-250) humans infected recently, but no sustained human-to-human transmission
  • I estimate the Infection Fatality Rate substantially lower than the ALERT team (theirs is 63% that CFR >= 10%), something like 80%CI = 0.1 - 5.0
  • The government's response
... (read more)
tlevin
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I think some of the AI safety policy community has over-indexed on the visual model of the "Overton Window" and under-indexed on alternatives like the "ratchet effect," "poisoning the well," "clown attacks," and other models where proposing radical changes can make you, your allies, and your ideas look unreasonable.

I'm not familiar with a lot of systematic empirical evidence on either side, but it seems to me like the more effective actors in the DC establishment overall are much more in the habit of looking for small wins that are both good in themselves ... (read more)

Showing 3 of 5 replies (Click to show all)

I'd also like to add "backlash effects" to this, and specifically effects where advocacy for AI Safety policy ideas which are far outside the Overton Window have the inadvertent effect of mobilising coalitions who are already opposed to AI Safety policies.

3
Cullen
Do you have specific examples of proposals you think have been too far outside the window?
3
freedomandutility
I think Yudkowsky's public discussion of nuking data centres has "poisoned the well" and had backlash effects.

Something I'm confused about: what is the threshold that needs meeting for the majority of people in the EA community to say something like "it would be better if EAs didn't work at OpenAI"?

Imagining the following hypothetical scenarios over 2024/25, I can't predict confidently whether they'd individually cause that response within EA?

  1. Ten-fifteen more OpenAI staff quit for varied and unclear reasons. No public info is gained outside of rumours
  2. There is another board shakeup because senior leaders seem worried about Altman. Altman stays on
  3. Superalignment team
... (read more)

A concrete prediction - 60% chance 80k doesn't list any jobs at OpenAI in 2026.

Going to quickly share that I'm going to take a step back from commenting on the Forum for the foreseeable future. There are a lot of ideas in my head that I want to work into top-level posts to hopefully spur insightful and useful conversation amongst the community, and while I'll still be reading and engaging I do have a limited amount of time I want to spend on the Forum and I think it'd be better for me to move that focus to posts rather than comments for a bit.[1]

If you do want to get in touch about anything, please reach out and I'll try my very best... (read more)

(EA) Hotel dedicated to events, retreats, and bootcamps in Blackpool, UK? 

I want to try and gauge what the demand for this might be. Would you be interested in holding or participating in events in such a place? Or work running them? Examples of hosted events could be: workshops, conferences, unconferences, retreats, summer schools, coding/data science bootcamps, EtG accelerators, EA charity accelerators, intro to EA bootcamps, AI Safety bootcamps, etc. 

This would be next door to CEEALAR (the building is potentially coming on the market), but mos... (read more)

Showing 3 of 6 replies (Click to show all)

For my org, I can imagine using this if it was 2x the size or more, but I can't really think of events I'd run that would be worth the effort to organise for 15 people.

(Maybe like 30% chance I'd use it within 2 years if had 30+ bedrooms, less than 10% chance at the actual size.)

Cool idea though!

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Chris Leong
I'm confused. Don't you already have a second building? Is that dedicated towards events or towards more guests?
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Greg_Colbourn
^I'm going to be lazy and tag a few people: @Joey @KarolinaSarek @Ryan Kidd @Leilani Bellamy @Habryka @IrenaK Not expecting a response, but if you are interested, feel free to comment or DM.

Quick poll [✅ / ❌]: Do you feel like you don't have a good grasp of Shapley values, despite wanting to? 

(Context for after voting: I'm trying to figure out if more explainers of this would be helpful. I still feel confused about some of its implications, despite having spent significant time trying to understand it)

0
Nathan Young
You might want to use viewpoints.xyz to run a poll here. 
1
Stan Pinsent
I have a post that takes readers through a basic example of how to calculate Shapley values.

I read your post while I was writing up the wiki article on Shapley values and thought it was really useful. Thanks for making that post!

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