Comment author: Elizabeth 16 January 2017 05:53:25PM 5 points [-]

A list of ethical and practical concerns the EA movement has with Intentional Insights: http://effective-altruism.com/ea/12z/concerns_with_intentional_insights/ .

Gleb Tsipursky has also repeatedly said he will leave the EA movement.

Comment author: Gleb_T  (EA Profile) 17 January 2017 04:03:59PM 0 points [-]

Gleb Tsipursky has also repeatedly said he will leave the EA movement.

This is simply false. See what I actually said here

Comment author: Elizabeth 16 January 2017 05:53:14PM 4 points [-]

A list of ethical and practical concerns the EA movement has with Intentional Insights: http://effective-altruism.com/ea/12z/concerns_with_intentional_insights/ .

Gleb Tsipursky has also repeatedly said he will leave the EA movement.

Comment author: Gleb_T  (EA Profile) 17 January 2017 04:03:52PM 0 points [-]

Gleb Tsipursky has also repeatedly said he will leave the EA movement.

This is simply false. See what I actually said here

Comment author: kbog  (EA Profile) 09 January 2017 07:23:31PM 0 points [-]

I mean a core as in a fixed point of interest. E.g. a forum, a blog, a website, a college club, etc. Something to seed the initiative that can stand on its own without having thousands of active members. You can't gather interested people without having something valuable to attract them.

In response to comment by kbog  (EA Profile) on Rational Politics Project
Comment author: Gleb_T  (EA Profile) 09 January 2017 09:51:35PM -1 points [-]

We have a number of collaborative venues, such as a Facebook group, blog, email lists, etc. for people who get involved.

Comment author: kbog  (EA Profile) 09 January 2017 04:26:32AM *  1 point [-]

I don't know if social movements ever start from concerted efforts like this. For instance, EA started because one or two organizations and philosophers got a lot of interest from a few people. Other social movements start spontaneously when people are triggered into protest and action by major events. It seems good to have an identifiable 'core' to any kind of movement, like the idea I had - "a formal or semi-formal structure to aggregate and compare evidence from both sides." If you leverage swarm intelligence, prediction markets, argument mapping or more basic online mechanisms then you can start to make something impressive that stands on its own. Though such a system would be more difficult to make successful if you tried to make it relevant for the broad population rather than just EAs. It's just one example.

In response to comment by kbog  (EA Profile) on Rational Politics Project
Comment author: Gleb_T  (EA Profile) 09 January 2017 04:55:57AM 0 points [-]

Yup, we're focusing on a core of people who are upset about lies and deceptions in the US election and the Brexit campaign, and aiming to provide them with means to address these deceptions in an effective manner. That's the goal!

Comment author: kbog  (EA Profile) 08 January 2017 07:16:05PM *  0 points [-]

I don't really get what it will do? Is it supposed to be a broad social movement? Or a new organization? Is it just going to be a name over a bunch of articles?

We thus anticipate that RAP will draw some heat from conservatives, and do not want to risk any backlash on the EA movement as a whole.

You're probably going to get more from liberals when you advocate being rational about conservatives.

In response to comment by kbog  (EA Profile) on Rational Politics Project
Comment author: Gleb_T  (EA Profile) 08 January 2017 09:04:31PM 0 points [-]

Broad social movement. We're aiming to focus on social media organizing at first, and then spread to local grassroots organizing later. There will be a lot of marketing and PR associated with it as well.

-7

Rational Politics Project

Brief Summary : There have been a number of concerns expressed in the EA Forum following the recent election about the role of EA in politics, such as about fundamental research on politics and policy as an EA issue, as well as specific concerns about Trump's election, especially in terms... Read More
Comment author: Czynski 31 October 2016 06:44:23PM 1 point [-]

The only concrete change specified here is something you've previously claimed to already do. This is yet one more instance of you not actually changing your behavior when sanctioned.

Comment author: Gleb_T  (EA Profile) 02 November 2016 02:54:41AM 2 points [-]

You are mistaken, we have never claimed that we will distance InIn publicly from the EA movement.

We have previously talked about us not focusing on EA in our broad audience writings, and instead talking about effective giving - which is what we've been doing. At the same time, we were quite active on the EA Forum, and engaging in a lot of behind-the-scenes, and also public, collaborations to promote effective marketing within the EA sphere.

Now, we are distancing from the EA movement as a whole.

Comment author: Gleb_T  (EA Profile) 30 October 2016 10:48:15PM *  11 points [-]

FYI, we decided to distance InIn publicly from the EA movement for the foreseeable future.

We will only reference effective giving and individual orgs that are interested in being promoted, as evidenced by being interested in providing InIn with stats for how many people we are sending to their websites, and similar forms of collaboration (yes, I'm comfortable using the term collaboration for this form of activity). Since GWWC/CEA seem not interested, we will not mention them in our future content.

Our work of course will continue to be motivated by EA concerns for doing the best things possible to improve the world in a cost-effective way, but we'll shift our focus from explicitly EA-themed activities to our other area of work - spreading rational thinking and decision-making to reduce existential risk, address fundamental societal problems, and decrease individual suffering. Still, we'll also continue to engage in collaborations and activities that have proved especially beneficial within the EA-related sphere, such as doing outreach to secular folks and spreading Giving Games, yet that will be a smaller aspect of our activities than in the past.

Comment author: Gleb_T  (EA Profile) 30 October 2016 10:38:21PM 16 points [-]

FYI, we removed references to GWWC and CEA from our documents

Comment author: Kathy 27 October 2016 07:35:15AM *  5 points [-]

I think liberating altruists to talk about their accomplishments has potential to be really high value, but I don't think the world is ready for it yet. I think promoting discussions about accomplishments among effective altruists is a great idea. I think if we do that enough, then effective altruists will eventually manage to present that to friends and family members effectively. This is a slow process but I really think word of mouth is the best promotional method for spreading this cultural change outside of EA, at least for now.

I totally agree with you that the world should not shut altruists down for talking about accomplishments, however we have to make a distinction between what we think people should do and what they are actually going to do.

Also, we cannot simply tell people "You shouldn't shut down altruists for talking about accomplishments." because it takes around 11 repetitions for them to even remember that. One cannot just post a single article and expect everyone to update. Even the most popular authors in our network don't get that level of attention. At best, only a significant minority reads all of what is written by a given author. Only some, not all, of those readers remember all the points. Fewer choose to apply them. Only some of the people applying a thing succeed in making a habit.

Additionally, we currently have no idea how to present this idea to the outside world in a way that is persuasive yet. That part requires a bunch of testing. So, we could repeat the idea 11 times, and succeed at absolutely no change whatsoever. Or we could repeat it 11 times and be ridiculed, succeeding only at causing people to remember that we did something which, to them, made us look ridiculous.

Then, there's the fact that the friends of the people who receive our message won't necessarily receive the message, too. Friends of our audience members will not understand this cultural element. That makes it very hard for the people in our audience to practice. If audience members can't consistently practice a social habit like sharing altruistic accomplishments with others, they either won't develop the habit in the first place, or the habit will be lost to disuse.

Another thing is that there could be some unexpected obstacle or Chesterton's fence we don't know about yet. Sometimes when you try to change things, you run face first into something really difficult and confusing. It can take a while to figure out what the heck happened. If we ask others to do something different, we can't be sure we aren't causing those others to run face first into some weird obstacle... at which point they may just wonder if we have any sense at all, lol. So, this is something that takes a lot of time, and care. It takes a lot of paying close attention to look for weird, awkward details that could be a sign of some sort of obstacle. This is another great reason to keep our efforts limited to a small group for now. The small group is a lot more likely to report weird obstacles to us, giving us a chance to do something sensible about it.

Changing a culture is really, really hard. To implement such a cultural change just within a chunk of the EA movement would take a significant amount of time. To get it to spread to all of EA would take a lot of time, and to get it spreading further would take many years.

Unless we one day see good evidence that a lot of people have adopted this cultural change, it's really best to speak for the audience that is actually present, whatever their culture happens to be. Even if we have to bend over backwards while playing contortionist to express our point of view to people, we just have to start by showing them respect no matter what they believe, and do whatever it takes to reach out across inferential distances and get through to them properly. It takes work.

Comment author: Gleb_T  (EA Profile) 27 October 2016 08:23:50PM -2 points [-]

This makes sense for spreading the message among EAs, which is why we have the Effective Altruist Accomplishments Facebook group. I'll have to think further about the most effective ways of spreading this message more broadly, as I'm not in a good mental space to think about it right now.

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