Comment author: number42 26 April 2018 06:06:07PM 1 point [-]

Yeah, I'd make it more visible, and flag it more earlier - it's a good idea which could use more responses.

Comment author: Peter_Hurford  (EA Profile) 28 April 2018 11:02:42PM *  1 point [-]

Right now 10% of people taking the EA Survey are also taking the anonymous survey, which is not unreasonable. After the main survey marketing is over, we may follow up and market the anonymous survey further.

Comment author: Nekoinentr 26 April 2018 05:34:38PM 2 points [-]

Maybe your college EA idealistic self expectation's were never that likely, so you shouldn't beat yourself up about them.

Comment author: Peter_Hurford  (EA Profile) 26 April 2018 07:00:14PM 3 points [-]

Thanks. I don't feel guilty about it. I just chose a different life. EA is still very important to me, but not as important as it once was. I think a lot of it is, like Joey said, the slow build up of small path changes over time.

Comment author: Nekoinentr 26 April 2018 05:35:46PM 0 points [-]

Please do share that data when you get a chance. You guys have a lot of fascinating data in those survey results, and while I understand you have limited time/resources, it would be a shame to see them go untapped.

Comment author: Peter_Hurford  (EA Profile) 26 April 2018 06:59:08PM 1 point [-]

Thanks. Not publishing what I have on this is a 2017 regret of mine and I hope not to repeat it in 2018.

Comment author: MarkusAnderljung 24 April 2018 08:14:10AM 2 points [-]

Thanks for this, Joey!

I'd be very keen to see more thorough data on this, for example: 1. To what extent is 80k's pivot away from recommending Management Consulting due to value drift? 2. My impression is that one of the reasons to focus less on GWWC has been attrition (i.e. value drift in these terms). Does anyone have access to those figures? 3. Would e.g. CEA or 80k be able to carry out a retrospective study on this? 4. Even more awesome would be to conduct a longitudinal cohort study on the topic.

Comment author: Peter_Hurford  (EA Profile) 26 April 2018 06:55:17PM 4 points [-]

I think this is something we may look at with the 2018 EA Survey, hopefully in cooperation with GWWC and 80K and leveraging their data as well.

Comment author: ozymandias 25 April 2018 07:36:14PM 11 points [-]

The EA community climate survey linked in the EA survey has some methodological problems. When academics study sexual harassment and assault, it's generally agreed upon that one should describe specific acts (e.g. "has anyone ever made you have vaginal, oral, or anal sex against your will using force or a threat of force?") rather than vague terms like harassment or assault. People typically disagree on what harassment and assault mean, and many people choose not to conceptualize their experiences as harassment or assault. (This is particularly true for men, since many people believe that men by definition can't be victims of sexual harassment or assault.) Similarly, few people will admit to perpetrating harassment or assault, but more people will admit to (for example) touching someone on the breasts, buttocks, or genitals against their will.

I'd also suggest using a content warning before asking people about potentially traumatic experiences.

Comment author: Peter_Hurford  (EA Profile) 25 April 2018 09:23:44PM *  5 points [-]

Thanks. We've never run an anonymous feedback survey before or a survey about sexual assault, so we're definitely open to any suggestions. We did work with Kathy some on this and we also drew some from the SlateStarCodex Survey.

Comment author: RandomEA 25 April 2018 08:19:31PM 12 points [-]

I was planning to give some feedback on the 2017 survey instrument after the last post in that series, which I had assumed would finish before the 2018 survey was released. Since my assumption was wrong (sorry!), I'll just post my feedback here to be considered for the 2019 survey:

  1. One major aspect of EA is the regularly produced online content on this forum and elsewhere. It might be useful to ask about the average number of hours a week people spend reading EA content as that could help people evaluate the value of producing online content.

  2. You could also ask people whether they've attended an EA Global conference. The responses could be used as a proxy to distinguish more involved and less involved EAs, which could be used in analyzing other issues like cause area preferences.

  3. For the question about career path, you could add advocacy as a fourth option. (80,000 Hours treats it as one of the four broad options.)

  4. For the same reasons that race was included in the 2017 survey, it could be useful to ask about parental education (as a proxy for socioeconomic background).

  5. You could ask people how many of their acquaintances they have seriously attempted to persuade to join EA and how many of those did join. This could provide useful data on the effectiveness of personal outreach.

  6. Another question that may be worth asking: "Have you ever seriously considered leaving EA?" For those that answer yes, you could ask them for their reasons.

  7. I think it could be useful to have data on the percent of EAs who are living organ donors and the percent of EAs who intend to become living organ donors. The major downside is that it may cause people to think that being a living organ donor is part of EA.

  8. Borrowing from Peter Singer, I propose asking: "Has effective altruism given you a greater sense of meaning and purpose in your life?"

  9. You could also ask about systemic change: "How much do you think the EA community currently focuses on systemic change (on a scale of 1 to 10)?" and "How much do you think the EA community should focus on systemic change (on a scale of 1 to 10)?" You could include a box for people to explain their answers.

  10. Lastly, you could ask questions about values. A) "Do you believe that preventing the suffering of a person living in your own country is more important than preventing an equal amount of suffering of a person living in a different country? Assume that there is no instrumental value to preventing the suffering of either and that in both cases the suffering is being prevented by means other than preventing existence or causing death." B) "Do you believe that preventing the suffering of a human is more important than preventing an equal amount of suffering of a non-human animal? Assume that there is no instrumental value to preventing the suffering of either and that in both cases the suffering is being prevented by means other than preventing existence or causing death." C) "Do you believe that preventing the suffering of a person living in the present is more important than preventing an equal amount of suffering of a person living several centuries from now? Assume that there is no instrumental value to preventing the suffering of either and that in both cases the suffering is being prevented by means other than preventing existence or causing death." D) "Do you believe that it is bad if a person who would live a happy life is not brought into existence?"

Comment author: Peter_Hurford  (EA Profile) 25 April 2018 09:13:29PM 2 points [-]

Thanks for the feedback. We can definitely consider a lot of these for the 2019 Survey. :)

Comment author: RandomEA 25 April 2018 08:19:31PM 12 points [-]

I was planning to give some feedback on the 2017 survey instrument after the last post in that series, which I had assumed would finish before the 2018 survey was released. Since my assumption was wrong (sorry!), I'll just post my feedback here to be considered for the 2019 survey:

  1. One major aspect of EA is the regularly produced online content on this forum and elsewhere. It might be useful to ask about the average number of hours a week people spend reading EA content as that could help people evaluate the value of producing online content.

  2. You could also ask people whether they've attended an EA Global conference. The responses could be used as a proxy to distinguish more involved and less involved EAs, which could be used in analyzing other issues like cause area preferences.

  3. For the question about career path, you could add advocacy as a fourth option. (80,000 Hours treats it as one of the four broad options.)

  4. For the same reasons that race was included in the 2017 survey, it could be useful to ask about parental education (as a proxy for socioeconomic background).

  5. You could ask people how many of their acquaintances they have seriously attempted to persuade to join EA and how many of those did join. This could provide useful data on the effectiveness of personal outreach.

  6. Another question that may be worth asking: "Have you ever seriously considered leaving EA?" For those that answer yes, you could ask them for their reasons.

  7. I think it could be useful to have data on the percent of EAs who are living organ donors and the percent of EAs who intend to become living organ donors. The major downside is that it may cause people to think that being a living organ donor is part of EA.

  8. Borrowing from Peter Singer, I propose asking: "Has effective altruism given you a greater sense of meaning and purpose in your life?"

  9. You could also ask about systemic change: "How much do you think the EA community currently focuses on systemic change (on a scale of 1 to 10)?" and "How much do you think the EA community should focus on systemic change (on a scale of 1 to 10)?" You could include a box for people to explain their answers.

  10. Lastly, you could ask questions about values. A) "Do you believe that preventing the suffering of a person living in your own country is more important than preventing an equal amount of suffering of a person living in a different country? Assume that there is no instrumental value to preventing the suffering of either and that in both cases the suffering is being prevented by means other than preventing existence or causing death." B) "Do you believe that preventing the suffering of a human is more important than preventing an equal amount of suffering of a non-human animal? Assume that there is no instrumental value to preventing the suffering of either and that in both cases the suffering is being prevented by means other than preventing existence or causing death." C) "Do you believe that preventing the suffering of a person living in the present is more important than preventing an equal amount of suffering of a person living several centuries from now? Assume that there is no instrumental value to preventing the suffering of either and that in both cases the suffering is being prevented by means other than preventing existence or causing death." D) "Do you believe that it is bad if a person who would live a happy life is not brought into existence?"

Comment author: Peter_Hurford  (EA Profile) 25 April 2018 09:12:44PM 2 points [-]

after the last post in that series, which I had assumed would finish before the 2018 survey was released

Yeah, this is a very fair assumption to make, but our publication kinda fell apart with the December holidays (we're an all volunteer team). This year we're intending to plan out our analysis publication with a lot more dedication and organization.

Comment author: RomeoStevens 23 April 2018 06:35:55PM *  0 points [-]
Comment author: Peter_Hurford  (EA Profile) 25 April 2018 04:11:31AM 5 points [-]

Can we get the 1-3 sentence summary before committing to 43min of talks?

Comment author: ThomasSittler 24 April 2018 01:46:14PM 7 points [-]

What is the latest data from gwwc about dropout rates from the pledge? An upper bound on dropout might be the number who cease to report their donations, while a lower bound would be the number who explicitly report failing to meet their pledge or ask to "untake" the pledge.

Comment author: Peter_Hurford  (EA Profile) 25 April 2018 03:27:20AM 1 point [-]

I'd like to see this. I have some data on this from the EA Survey and intend to follow up on something similar later this year.

Comment author: Joey 24 April 2018 04:41:24PM 21 points [-]

So I want to be pretty careful about going into details, but I can mix some stories together to make a plausible sounding story based on what I have heard. Please keep in mind this story is a fiction based off a composite of case studies I’ve witnessed, not a real example of any particular person.

Say Alice is an EA. She learns about it in his first year of college. She starts by attending an EA event or two and eventually ends up being a member of his university chapter and pretty heavily reading the EA forum. She takes the GWWC pledge and a year later she takes a summer internship at an EA organization. During this time she identifies strongly with the EA movement and considers it one of her top priorities. Sadly, as Alice is away at her internship her chapter suffers and when she gets back she hits a particularly rough year of school and due to long term concerns, she prioritizes school over setting the chapter back up, mainly thinking about her impact. The silver lining is at the end of this rough year she starts a relationship. The person is smart and well suited, but does not share her charitable interest. Over time she stops reading the EA content she used to and the chapter never gets started again. After her degree ends she takes a job in consulting that she says will give her career capital, but she has a sense her heart is not as into EA as she once was. She knows a big factor is her boyfriend’s family would approve of a more normal job than a charity focused one, plus she is confident she can donate and have some impact that way. Her first few paychecks she rationalizes as needing to move out and get established. The next few to build up a safe 6 month runway. The donations never happen. There's always some reason or another to put it off, and EA seems so low on the priorities list now, just a thing she did in college, like playing a sport. Alice ends up donating a fairly small amount to effective charities (a little over 1%). Her involvement was at its peak when she was in college and she knows her college self would be disappointed. Each choice made sense at the time. Many of them even follow traditional EA advice, but the endline result is Alice does not really feel she is an EA anymore. She has many other stronger identities. In this story, with different recommendations from the EA movement and different choices from Alice, she could have ended up doing earning to give and donating a large percentage long term or working with an EA org long term, but instead she “value drifted”.

Comment author: Peter_Hurford  (EA Profile) 25 April 2018 02:43:07AM 7 points [-]

Many aspects of this story sound kinda like things that have happened to me to make me less hardcore. I definitely still strongly affiliate with EA, donate ~15% / $30K, and spend about 20hrs/week on EA projects, but my college EA idealistic self expected me to donate ~$100K/yr by now or work full-time 60hrs/week on EA projects. I'm unsure how "bad" of a "value drift" this is, but definitely short of my full potential.

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