Thanks! Perhaps you or someone else with an iPhone could copy-paste it.

Thanks for sharing; would be great if there was a transcript! 

This paper was previously shared and discussed (with detailed responses from Toby) here, and the arguments also shared and discussed before that here.

Me: What do you think about early children’s rights advocates? They advocated for incremental reforms on child labour(restrictions on number of hours, banning children from working during school hours etc.) even though using child labour is morally forbidden. What they did seems to be commendable. So it looks like in some cases it’s commendable to get other people to do less bad things.

This seems like an odd example to me because child labour is legal and common almost everywhere (to my knowledge) and people generally do not think this is very bad, let alone morally forbidden. There are regulations about the type of work children can do but no blanket ban; I do not see any significant inherent problems with children having paper rounds or working as a babysitter or similar.

I think it's part of your job as the head of any EA org to present the best side of all aspects of effective autism

Why? We should hire leaders based on how well suited they are to running the organization in question. There is no requirement that to work in EA you have to agree with all EA causes, or that you should pretend that you do.

Sure, if EVF released more detailed information about Wytham Abbey, that would help people evaluate EVF a little bit, in the same way that if Apple released more detailed information about Apple Watch, that would also help shareholders evaluate Apple. It could also help bondholders, consumers, academics and policymakers make decisions. In both cases the impact is limited by the fact that the aggregate numbers are already released, so if EVF/Apple had an especially bloated cost structure on Wytham/Watch, that implies some other EVF/Apple division was extra-efficient.

I don't know exactly how Apple is internally organized, but I strongly suspect there is an Apple-Watch-level P&L calculated for planning purposes and compensating management. I would expect Apple Watch to have more professional accounting than Wytham, and to be more able to bear the additional costs involved in publishing (bringing internal numbers up to GAAP/IFRS standards etc.).

You're right that by publishing information Apple could help competitors, and this is a significant disincentive. It's less clear to me however that this should be a considered a cost from a social point of view; helping competitors make decisions could help increase competition and the spread of good practices in the market. 

Yes, Harvard Law School publishes details for the general public, but that is surely because HLS is trying to fundraise from the general public. Wytham fundraised from a small group of private donors, and presumably they got to see the financials. Wytham to my knowledge has never attempted to solicit donations from the general public so does not have the same need to share this information with the general public.

I think if EV had had a high corruption culture (even if they didn't literally know about any crimes), it would have been much more costly to have an external investigation (and such an investigation would likely have shaken out differently).

This is an interesting argument, thanks for making it. Would you mind explaining in a bit more depth? I would have thought the structure of the investigation, especially including the fact that the results were not published, would limit the cost of the investigation. As far as I'm aware the only thing outside observers have to go on is this paragraph, which appears to be from this guy:

Finally, I want to add this point.  Over the last year, my team and I had the chance to meet dozens of people affiliated with the various EV projects.  We were consistently impressed by everyone’s genuine commitment and dedication to the EA mission, particularly during a very challenging year.  I wish you all the best in your future endeavors.  

Is there some significant difference you see between the EVF investigation and the OpenAI investigation?

Nitpick: I think this is a linkpost not a repost since this is the first time it has been shared on the forum.