In many ways, most EAs are extraordinarily smart, but in one way EAs are naive. The most well known EAs have stated that the goal of EA is to minimize suffering. I can't explain this well at all, but I'm certain that is not the cause or effect of altruism as I understand it.
Consider The Giver. Consider a world where everyone was high on opiates all the time. There is no suffering or beauty. Would you disturb it?
Considering this, my immediate reaction is to restate the goal of EA as maximizing the difference between happiness and suffering. This still seems naive. Happiness and suffering are so interwoven, I'm not sure this can be done. The disappointment from being rejected by a girl may help you come to terms with reality. The empty feeling in the pit of your stomach when your fantasy world crumbles motivates you to find something more fulfilling.
It's difficult to say. Maybe one of you can restate it more plainly. This isn't an argument against EA. This is an argument that while we probably do agree on what actions are altruistic--the criteria used to explain it are overly simplified.
I don't know if there is much to be gained by having criteria to explain altruism, but I am tired of "reducing suffering." I like to think about it more as doing what I can to positively impact the world--and using EA to maximize that positivity where possible. Because altruism isn't always as simple as where to send your money.
No they're not. I don't understand why people always say this. You can be happy without suffering. On "the disappointment from being rejected by a girl may help you come to terms with reality"--the only value of the rejection is the knowledge you gain, not the unpleasant feeling. The suffering has no inherent value, only instrumental value.
If animal brains are biologically incapable of feeling happiness without also feeling suffering (which I doubt), we can just modify brains so they don't work that way. (Obviously this is a long term goal since we can't do it right now.)
You (and the 5 people who agreed) are blowing my mind right now.
Based on the last paragraph, it sounds like you would support a world full of opiate users--provided there was a sustainable supply of opiates.
The first paragraph is what's blowing my mind though. When I was a baby, I'm pretty sure I would have told you that a room with toys and sweets would maximize my happiness. I guess you could argue that I'd eventually find out that it would not sustain my long term happiness, but I really do think some amount of suffering ensures happiness in the future... (read more)