My first real introduction to EA was in 2012 from an article by Toby Ord: Slate.com/articles/life/ft/2011/01/live_like_a_grad_student_forever.html
Before that time, I had read some of Peter Singer’s work related to poverty philosophy. Since then I’ve been alone, reading and participating in online posts and articles. EA action is very much individual action. Even when volunteering or giving part of my income, I still see that is primarily individualistic. I believe someone can be an EA without knowing about the EA movement.
I first met another EA while traveling to NY for secondary testing (altruistic kidney donation). We talked briefly.* That was my first face-to-face encounter with a fellow EA. Last night I attended my first EA event (a meetup in Madison, WI). Think of it, five years later!
A new friend came along with me. After the meetup, he mentioned how we didn’t do anything. (The event was called “Lightning Talks.”) We just discussed ideas. He had a valid point. It was true.
I reiterated the Lawyer in the Soup Kitchen (mentioned in the beginning of the meetup) about how volunteering time locally is not always the most impactful action. Additionally, I discussed learning about new potential cause areas and how not every EA idea is intuitive. But I had already figured he would bring up “action” versus “philosophy” anyway. So I went further into what a pure “action” or "doing" good meetup could be: I imagine a hardcore EA meetup could be primarily about making money. I mean actually making money during the meetup: contract work.
By learning a programming language, one can freelance their time—anywhere, whenever—by taking on, say, an HTML contract or even non-programming related jobs though freelance websites (e.g., UpWork). Wouldn’t that be incredible? What if most of the time of most EA events involved learning and doing how to do online freelance jobs? EA concepts and key ideas could be the dressing on the side, sprinkled in when needed. The salad could be all those morsels of contract work floating about online.
I imagine such a hardcore meetup would involve pooling the income earned to donate to a specific charity, such as SCI. I realize this would turn off a lot of new people to EA. It's working for free—even if the time included learning [C, C++, JS, Java, Ruby, etc.] language. To someone new, I think it may seem cultish and well...detached. Plus, I think there’d be a gender disparity. Plus the advocacy part of the meetup, learning how to effectively advocate EA to others, would take a hit. Several potential negatives. It depends on the size of the group.
My main question for you: How would you discuss the point from a friend new to EA: “Nothing was practically accomplished at the meeting. Ideas were discussed.”
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*Side tangent, we are both vegetarian. I mentioned that I went to an all vegan NY restaurant, and she told me about vegan friends who eat beef—because beef cattle suffer the least. Whether or not this is true, I bring it up when discussing veg*anism to express how Suffering is my primary reason. It bridges a gap in understanding.
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Related, but does not mention online freelance/contract work:
No. Earning money together is not what I mean. Example. A two hour work meetup is scheduled. Unlike a purely social meetup, such as meeting at a bar, this type of meetup will involve working contracts. It makes sense to increase morale by contributing to one charity at the end of the day for the event. This is just what I see happening. Perhaps even a competitive aspect, the top contributor gets to pick the charity. When telling others, "We raised $$$ for charity last meeting" verses "We raised $$$ for SCI last meeting." There is a huge difference! All charity is not good.
Do most idea discussing meetings (opposed to pub-esque social gatherings) involve a lot of new people? This is where it depends on group size. It's not for very big meetings (e.g., EA London).
Example. For Engineers Without Borders, we have a general meeting every other week, and every other alternative week there are four different types of "work" meetings. The general meetings involve a short introduction to who we are, our past projects and current project. The work meetings involve working on different aspects of the project. The grants work meeting involves writing grant applications. Another work meeting involves, depending on phase of the project, designing or learning how to contribute to the CAD blueprint. Actual work is being done at least every other week.
For a regular weekly EA meeting, say, at a university, I heard that most members are not new. I presume most universities have mostly a non-rotating group. It sounds the same as Engineers Without Borders meetings. Most people are not new. Regardless, it wouldn't matter the skill level. That's the whole point! Skilled members help non-skilled members. Again, doing a contract in, say, a Power Point presentation can be self-taught. This can be worked on, the process of learning, at such work meetings. IFF someone needs help, someone else at the event probably knows more, or at least can be a sounding board to help.
Ideally, a few easy jobs could start new people off. Although, I see the majority of contracts being programming contracts.
I mean doing contract work on the side--especially for EA university groups. Additionally, most GWWC pledge signers are involved in software development (i.e., programming).
This keeps going back to group size. For EA London, I wouldn't expect this type of initiative to be the norm for events.
This would not be the case for university students. Most of us are working low-income jobs.
My main point is that certain people new to EA, such as the guy that came along with me to the EA Madison event and family members, think that EA is itself useless. "Nothing was accomplished. Ideas were discussed."
“We got a lot of young professionals and students, and some young professionals really liked the ideas. But because we don’t have anything concrete for them to engage in this, it’s a really big gap for them to engage in the community.”
effective-altruism.com/ea/1ow/why_groups_should_consider_direct_work
Having group events with 5-50 people working, learning and growing would show these dissenters that there are EA meetings where good things are actually accomplished. Instead of a specialized philosophy club discussions, there would be action happening.
Freelance work is one example. Volunteering locally is another. Sure, with that same amount of time, it wouldn't be a good as doing a contract job and donating to AMF or something. But volunteering locally is doing something. That something is better than discussing advanced ideas, such as moral patienthood or predictive models. Don't get me wrong, I love discussing ethics and morality. I enjoy ripping into the big meaty center of a technical discussion. Yet, instead of talking about what to do or how we could do certain things marginally better, we can practically do something with that time: salads. Lots and lots of salads.
You keep coming back to this focus on doing "something," which has been suggested on the forum before. You seem to think that freelancing together beats many other alternatives. Why do you think that freelancing is competitive with other options discussed in the articles you cited?
Examples of "something" that could be (and often is) done instead of freelancing contracts:
-animal advocacy
-political lobbying
-research or writing an "Effective Thesis"
-making yourself more employable for after you graduate
-hosting a fundraiser
EDIT:... (read more)