Comment author: Kimwiggs09 25 April 2018 07:48:36AM -1 points [-]

Return Lost Love Spells That Really Work fast: Fix Your Broken Relationship Or Marriage

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Comment author: Kimwiggs09 25 April 2018 07:48:24AM -1 points [-]

Return Lost Love Spells That Really Work fast: Fix Your Broken Relationship Or Marriage

My appreciation goes to the great spell caster who has brought back my husband. It all happened when i came across different testimonies and appreciations share about this man called Dr Trust here on the internet on how he did cast spells to reunite broken relationships,winning lotto for different people across the globe. Then i decided to collect is website contact for me to reach out to him,because i was also encountering some problems with my man and this has torn our relationship apart. So I did that with reluctance and i got a positive result which was just all like a dream to me,my husband call my cell phone again for the first time in 4 years asking for us to have a date and sort out things. Now as i speak we are happier than ever before. My husband came to me and apologized for the wrongs he did and promise never to do it again. Ever since then, everything has returned back to normal. Thank you Dr Trust for saving my broken Marriage. Dr. Trust is the best online spell caster that is powerful and genuine. Email him now today.

Check his website for more testimony of other people: https://utimatespellcast.wordpress.com

Email him: Ultimatespellcast@yahoo.com OR Ultimatespellcast@gmail.com

Whats-App: or call: +2348156885231

Comment author: John_Maxwell_IV 25 April 2018 06:20:54AM *  0 points [-]

Social ties could interact in an interesting way with the apparently common insecurity of not being "EA enough". Suppose I consider myself an EA for a while, but due to random life fluctuation I find myself not being "EA enough" for an extended period. Then I might feel like an imposter attending EA events... which causes me to attend fewer events... which decreases my social ties to other EAs... which reduces my motivation for EA activities... which makes me feel like more of an imposter. If the spiral continues unabated, I will likely find myself drifting out of EA.

That's part of the reason I like reading forums like this one. Reading what other EAs are thinking about causes EA to be more mentally available to me and gets me more excited about working on EA stuff. Writing comments is a low-effort way to feel like I'm contributing something, and it doesn't activate much imposter syndrome because it usually feels like my perspective would be valuable even if I was a complete non-EA.

Comment author: rileyharris 25 April 2018 05:28:05AM *  0 points [-]
  • If someone was looking to work for OPP would an honours* or masters program be more beneficial than an undergraduate degree?

  • Are there particular questions or areas that could be worked on for a research project in honours/masters that are particularly helpful directly or develop the right kinds of skills for OPP? (especially in economics, philosophy or cognitive science)

  • ("Honours" in Australia is a 1 year research/coursework program)

Comment author: Peter_Hurford  (EA Profile) 25 April 2018 04:11:31AM 0 points [-]

Can we get the 1-3 sentence summary before committing to 43min of talks?

Comment author: Peter_Hurford  (EA Profile) 25 April 2018 03:27:20AM 1 point [-]

I'd like to see this. I have some data on this from the EA Survey and intend to follow up on something similar later this year.

Comment author: Peter_Hurford  (EA Profile) 25 April 2018 02:43:07AM 0 points [-]

Many aspects of this story sound kinda like things that have happened to me to make me less hardcore. I definitely still strongly affiliate with EA, donate ~15% / $30K, and spend about 20hrs/week on EA projects, but my college EA idealistic self expected me to donate ~$100K/yr by now or work full-time 60hrs/week on EA projects. I'm unsure how "bad" of a "value drift" this is, but definitely short of my full potential.

Comment author: Denkenberger 25 April 2018 12:48:48AM 0 points [-]

GWWC says 4.8% per year attrition. If we say the OP data is half life of 5 years and exponential decay, that is 13% attrition per year. That would mean an expected duration of being an EA of eight years. I think I remember reading somewhere that GWWC was only assuming three years of donations, so eight years sounds a lot better to me. Another thought is that the pledge has been compared with marriage, so we could look at the average duration of the marriage. When I looked into this, it appeared to be fairly bimodal, with many ending relatively quickly, but many ending till death do they part. GWWC argues that consistent exponential decay would be too pessimistic. If we believe the 13% per year attrition, that means we need to recruit 13% more people each year just to stay the same size.

Comment author: itaibn 25 April 2018 12:07:57AM 0 points [-]

A particular word choice that put me at unease is calling "dating a non-EA" "dangerous" without qualifying this word properly. It is more precise to say that something is "good" or "bad" for a particular purpose than to just call it "good" or "bad"; just the same with "dangerous". If you call something "dangerous" without qualification or other context, this leaves an implicit assumption that the underlying purpose is universal and unquestioned, or almost so, in the community you're speaking to. In many cases it's fine to assume EA values in these sorts of statements -- this is an EA forum, after all. Doing so for statements about value drift appears to support the norm that people here should want to stay with EA values forever, a norm which I oppose.

Comment author: Robert_Wiblin 24 April 2018 11:47:12PM 0 points [-]

This is a useful analysis, I expect it will be incorporated into our discussion of discount rates in the career guide.

Perhaps I missed it but how many of the 7 who left the 50% category went into the 10% category rather than dropping out entirely?

Comment author: Denkenberger 24 April 2018 11:02:06PM 1 point [-]

I second the being sorry about the trouble with EAs and kids. Having kids does make it more difficult to be a 50% EA, but there definitely examples such as Julia Wise/Jeff Kaufman, Toby Ord/Bernadette Young, and myself. As for the gendered response, about 3% of US stay-at-home parents are dads. But one time I thought through my friends, and it was 50%! Granted, they were pretty left-leaning, but so is EA. As an aside, now that young women make more money than young men (largely because women go to college at higher rates than men), if we made the decision just based on money, we could have the majority of stay-at-home parents be dads.

Comment author: Denkenberger 24 April 2018 10:08:49PM *  0 points [-]

I think the 10% versus 50% descriptions are useful, and I'm surprised I have not seen them before on the forum, except for my comment here. In that comment, I was arguing that free time could be defined as 40 hours a week, so if you volunteer effectively four hours a week, that would make you a 10% EA. But this also means if you donate 50% and spend 50% of your free time effectively (like I try to do), you would be a 100% EA. Another way is having an EA job (which is typically half of market salary, so it is like donating 50%) that is nominally 40 hours a week, but actually working 60 hours a week, so it is like you are volunteering half of your "free" time. Then it would be nice clean orders of magnitude. But 100% is not very common, and it could be misleading, so 50% is ok.

Comment author: Joey 24 April 2018 09:59:41PM 3 points [-]

I agree regarding implementation difficulties, particularly long term ones (e.g. losing a visa for a place you were living in with a big EA community) can muddy the waters a lot. It's hard to get into the details, but I would generally consider someone not drifted if it was a clearly capacity affecting thing (e.g. they got carpal tunnel) but outside of that they are working on the same projects they would have wanted to in all cases.

A more nuanced view might be break it down into: “Value change away from EA” - defined as changing fundamental ethical views, maybe changing to valuing people within your country more than outside of it.. “Action change away from EA” - defined as changing one of the fundamental applications of your still similarly held values. Maybe you think being veg is good, but you are no longer veg due to moving to a different, less conducive living situation.

With short and long term versions of both and with it being pretty likely that “value change” would lead to “action change” over time, I used value drift as a catch-all for both the above. It’s also how I have heard it commonly used as, but I am open to changing the term to be more descriptive.

“As the EA community we should treat people sharing goals and values of EA but finding it hard to act towards implementing them very differently to people simply not sharing our goals and values anymore. Those groups require different responses.”

I strongly agree. These seem to be very different groups. I also think you could even break it down further into “EAs who rationalize doing a bad thing as the most ethical thing” and “EAs who accept as humans that they have multiple drives they need to trade off between”. Most of my suggestions in the post are aimed at actions one could take now that reduce both “action change” and “value change”. Once someone has changed I am less sure about what the way forward is, but I think that could warrant more EA thought (e.g. how to re-engage someone who was disconnected for logistical reasons).

On ii)

Sorry to hear you have had trouble with the EA community and children. I think it's one of the life changes that is generally updated too strongly on by EAs and assuming that a person (of any gender) will definitely value drift upon having children is clearly incorrect. Personally I have found the EAs who I have spoken to who have kids to be unusually reflective about its effects on them compared to other similar life changes, perhaps because it has been more talked about in EA than say partner choice or moving cities. When a couple who plans to have kids has kids and changes their life around that in standard/expected ways, I do not see that as a value drift from their previous state (of planning to have kids and planning to have life changes around that).

I also think people will run into problems pretty quickly if they assume that every time someone goes through a life change that the person will change radically and become less EA. I think I see it intuitively as more of a bayesian prior. If someone has been involved in EA for a week and then they are not involved for 2 weeks, it might be sane to consider the possibilities of them not coming back. On the flip side, if an EA has been involved for years and was not involved for 2 weeks, people would think nothing of it. The same holds true for large life changes. It’s more about the person's pattern of long term of behavior and a combined “overall” perspective.

My list of concerns about a new trend of EA’s “relaying information about opportunities only informally” is so long it will have to be reserved for a whole other blog post.

Comment author: Denkenberger 24 April 2018 09:37:58PM *  0 points [-]

The other disadvantage of donor advised funds is that they often have restricted investment options. However, my financial advisor finally found one with investment freedom called the Community Foundation in Boulder (you don't have to be in Boulder Colorado to use it, but you would need to be in the US to get the tax deduction).

Comment author: Halstead 24 April 2018 07:35:08PM 2 points [-]

haha yeah that was my take. I think the best norm to propagate is "go out with whoever makes you happy"

Comment author: MichaelPlant 24 April 2018 07:28:02PM 1 point [-]

I did think that while writing it, and it worried me too. Despite that, the thought doesn't strike me as totally stupid. If we think it's reasonable to talk about commitment devices in general, it seems one we ought to talk about in particular in one's choice of partner. If you want to do X, finding someone that supports you to towards you goal of achieving X seems rather helpful, whereas finding a partner that will discourage you from achieving X seems unhelpful. Nevertheless, I accept one of the obvious warning signs of being in a cult is the cult leaders tell you to date only people inside the cult lest you get 'corrupted'...

Comment author: Evan_Gaensbauer 24 April 2018 06:57:06PM 0 points [-]

What's your impression of how positively correlated close social ties are with staying altruistic among those individuals you surveyed?

Comment author: Halstead 24 April 2018 06:46:46PM 4 points [-]

This comment comes across as a tad cult-y.

Comment author: MichaelPlant 24 April 2018 06:33:40PM 1 point [-]

Ah, that's great. Thanks very much for that. I think "dating a non-EA" is a particularly dangerous(/negative impact?) phenomenon we should probably be talking about more. I also know someone, A, whose non-EA-inclined partner, B, was really unhappy that A wasn't aiming to get a high-paying professional job and it really wrenched A from focusing on trying do the most useful stuff. Part of the problem was B's family wanted B's partner to be dating a high earner.

Comment author: Denise_Melchin 24 April 2018 05:20:55PM *  4 points [-]

Thanks for collecting the data Joey! Really useful.

i) I'm not sure whether 'value drift' is a good term to describe loss of motivation for altruistic actions. I'm also not sure whether the data you collected is a good proxy for loss of motivation for altruistic actions.

To me the term value drift implies that the values of the value drifting person are less important to them than they used to be, as opposed to finding them harder to implement. Your data is consistent with both interpretations. I also wouldn't call someone who still cares as much about their values but finds it harder to be motivated having 'value drifted'.

If we observe someone moving to a different location and then contributing less EA wise, then this can have multiple causes. Maybe their values actually changed, maybe they lost motivation or EA contributions have just become harder to do because there's less EA information and fewer people to do projects with around.

As the EA community we should treat people sharing goals and values of EA but finding it hard to act towards implementing them very differently to people simply not sharing our goals and values anymore. Those groups require different responses.

ii) This is somewhat tangential to the post, but since having kids came up as a potential reason for value drifting, I'd like to mention how unfortunate it can be for people who have had kids if other EAs assume they have value drifted as a result.

I've had a lot of trouble within the last year in EA spaces after having a baby. EAs around me constantly assume that I suddenly don't care anymore about having a high impact and might just want to be a stay at home parent. This is incredibly insulting and hurtful to me. Especially if it comes from people whom I have known for a long time and who should know this would completely go against my (EA & feminist) values. Particularly bitter is how gendered this assumption is. My kids' dad (also an EA) never gets asked whether he wants to be a stay at home parent now.

I really had expected the EA community to be better at this. It also makes me wonder on how many opportunities to contribute I might have missed out on. The EA community often relays information about opportunities only informally, if someone is assumed to not be interested in contributing the information about opportunities is much less likely to reach them. Thus the belief that EAs will contribute much less once they have kids might turn into a self-fulfilling prophecy.

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